Bona Traffic vs Bona Traffic HD – What’s the difference? Required fields are marked *. Bona Mega Clear Hd has a variety pictures that combined to find out the most recent pictures of Bona Mega Clear Hd here, and afterward you can acquire the pictures through our best bona mega clear hd collection.Bona Mega Clear Hd pictures in here are posted and uploaded by Adina Porter for your bona mega clear hd images collection. Related products. Is a water base satin finish harder than an oil finish ? Bona Traffic HD. It is applied at a rate of 9-10m2 per litre. But there is not product that you can put on top to fix…except for maybe a bunch of area rugs. While traditional Traffic literally re-defined the area of wear, HD takes it even further. Discover which ones at 0:30. Thanks. Application is with a Bona waterborne roller cover although it works well with Dacron waterborne covers found in most paint stores if you want to use a larger roller cover. It looks better (and yellows less over time), it lasts much longer (often an extra 3 to 5 years, pending on the wear and tear), it has lower VOCs and it smells less. Bona Traffic HD Anti-slip possesses all the supreme features of Bona Traffic HD, but with the additional benefit of being formulated to meet the highest standards for slip resistance in commercial areas, staircases and other places with an increased risk of spillage or slipping. The addition of a second component and the removal of the amber tint combine to increase the physical performance and provide a new look to the Bona Mega … Post was not sent - check your email addresses! Bona Traffic is the only polyurethane I’d recommend for white washed or gray stained floors! In addition, since waterborne finishes have low VOCs, there is less concern … With a t-bar, most installers will get a higher coverage rate, which is important to keep in mind with Traffic HD. Slightly more abrasion resistant, lower VOCs, but most importantly, it gets closer to full cure in 24 than any other Bona product. First, the thinners evaporate and the finish becomes tack free. Scott – It’s perfectly fine to use Bona Traffic HD. It should be between 65-75 degrees (ideally 65-70) while floors are done and up to 30 days afterwards. I would try lots of strong exhaust fans. Marcelo – I’m not sure if there’s a perceptible visual difference between the two. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. Learn how your comment data is processed. (Bona Traffic does cost significantly more than other water borne polyurethanes and it is WORTH it because it’s head and shoulders above the rest. Free shipping starts at $75 orders. Last week, i asked a few questions on this board. The real question is the look you want, how you feel about the odor, and the drying and curing time. any thoughts? Most people don’t understand the difference between drying time and curing time. I’ve been on vacation for the last week or so (Thanksgiving). Yes, 2 (or 3) coats of poly would be on top of stain. I would call Bona to see what their tech department thinks. In fact, Bona Traffic HD has dry times of two to three hours and a full cure in just three days so you are back in your home quicker. Mike. I would never recommend using paint on the floors as it usually ruins the wood permanently as it seeps in the cracks. the sealer acts as a coat, so you already have 3 coats in total. It offer 67% greater performance over Traditional Traffic. But, the difference in price is fairly insignificant. Sorry about that. the only difference is the color. Parts A and B are sold together and separately, so if you’re sold on Bona… But speak with their tech department as I’m sure they have lab results. Use TRAFFIC HD … Hi we have had our floors done professionally with Bona Traffic and it is a Matte finish (3 coats). If so, is a big difference? We have one coat of Bona white and 3.5 coats of Bona traffuc. Bona Mega Clear HD takes Bona Mega to the next level. Does this matter if I want to apply the bona traffic on top of my floor? As for durability, both will scratch but I found Traffic … Can you tell me the difference between the Bona Traffic Naturale & the Bona Traffic HD? With Traffic HD being a two component, many contractors coat the floor only to realize that they forgot to put in the hardener. Bona Mega Clear HD Semi Gloss 4.2 out of 5 stars 4. My contractor has already applied three coats of Bona Traffic. I’m just trying to catch up now,and I still have another 20-25 questions to go. Significantly outperforms all urethane finishes, including Bona Traffic, in durability at 24 hours. One cork place says use Bona Traffic or Traffic HD commercial, and one says don’t touch it. Two component finishes are much tougher than their single pack rivals. You can read more about sheen level here. Bona Traffic HD Extra Matte is a floor finish for hardwood floor owners with an uncompromising attitude towards durability, being green and looking gorgeous. Bona Traffic HD is a two-component commercial waterborne finish for wood flooring that emits 40% fewer VOCs than comparable products and dries in two to three hours. Slightly more abrasion resistant, lower VOCs, but most importantly, it gets closer to full cure in 24 than any other Bona product. Adrian – I would recommend you call the manufacturer. Not sure if you paid the contractor/paid in full or what, but there may be options to try to get your money back (e.g. Bona Mega Clear HD. Regarding durability of finish, it depends on brand and type. In order to make the hardwood floor more protected and new, we used a Weiman Hardwood polish and restore product on our floor. Bona Traffic HD Commercial Satin 4.2 out of 5 stars 86. What’s the coverage of Traffic HD Floor Finish? This is why you need a local professional to look at it in person. These finishes are safe for the environment, dry quickly, and have low odor. But, I did just respond to your question about 15 minutes ago. It’s meant to look more natural. Traffic HD will go on thicker so that you can get a thicker finish in just two coat, which means that you won’t get as much coverage as what you may expect. Second, I don’t think Bona would be a problem and it probably your safest option. Have your floors coated with one coat of traffic and you will notice a huge improvement in how your floor preforms IMO, you will probably need to fully sand and refinish the floors and start over. Your email address will not be published. We talk through two leading water-based finishes with Brad West, Bona’s Midwest Territory Manager. I’m conflicted and cant find anything on line to support his claim but would hate to make a huge mistake in choosing waterbased Bona over oilbased. Anytime that you come into a house and see big scratches in the floor or damaged finish, those are good signs to use a high durability finish, like Traffic HD. If the finish absorbs into the wood, it can lead to other problems like panelization and boards being glued together. I think it looks better and more natural to leave as is…based on how it will look 1 year later. It seems that the flooring guy used an out of date product and didn’t sieve it like a sticking. Cath – First, I’m sorry about your problems and that contractor. Now that you have polish on the floor, you can’t screen and recoat as there are waxes in the polish. Orders usually ship the same business day. If you wait at least 6 months from when the last coat of poly was applied, you should be fine. I also consider floors from the 1700s to be old. $128.25. Bona Traffic HD Commercial Satin. Bona Traffic is really the gold standard among water borne polyurethanes – it’s the best of the best, and I highly recommend it if you are planning to use water borne poly for your floors  (you can read more about that here:  What are the best brands of polyurethane? At this point, your floors will be much harder and resilient. Bona Traffic HD is a water-based two component top coat designed for use in public areas subject to very high levels of traffic. If it’s new, I’d leave it. $126.44. Bona Traffic HD Commercial Semi-Gloss 3.9 out of 5 stars 72. Also, BTW, the issue could be mixing…if it’s not mixed properly, you could have that issue. It is also recommended for use in schools and nurseries due to its very low indoor emissions. Bona Traffic HD Semi Gloss Water-Based Wood Floor Finish - 3 x 1 Gal. But, Bona Traffic will harden faster, so in the first week or so, I suppose Bona traffic HD would be harder, but after a few weeks, they are equally as durable. You can read more here:  How long does it take Polyurethane to cure). So again is the Traffic worth the cost or will I be just fine with a coat of bona prime and 2 coats of mega hd. And, bear in mind that you would usually screen or buff the floor first. Bona wants you to apply Traffic HEAVY but one risks puddles that way. Waterborne Finishes Sealers Mega From Bona; 7. This is important even if you are away on vacation or not living in the house yet. Watch the video above or keeping reading to find out how Mega One or Traffic HD may be the right finish for your next job. Minwax stain takes longer than duraseal, especially for dark stains. If not mixed thoroughly, you can end up with a “gradient” sheen, because all of the flattening agents are sitting on the bottom. Out floor has been a nightmare. Residential hardwood flooring images hardwood floors bona traffic finishes questions for best water based polyurethanes for most durable hardwood floor finishes 5 best water based polyurethanes for. Give us a call at your nearest Master’s Craft, and we can get you in contact with your local Bona representative. Item ID: BKWBTRAFFICHDSATING01. You are better off with 3 coats (obviously) than 2. Remember that Bonaseal, Amberseal, Mega, and Traffic are all water-based products; use water for all cleanup. There’s no preferred way to apply Mega One or Traffic HD. Other issues arise when putting in the hardener and forgetting to shake it. Bona Traffic is formulated to withstand commercial use with heavy foot traffic, so just imagine what it can do for your own home. How to apply one coat of Bonaseal followed by two coats of Mega or Traffic. For Bona Traffic, that’s usually a few hours (but waiting 24 hrs before walking on the floors is much safer). Will it discolour the floor in any way. There is an option that only costs a few dollars more for a their slip resistant formula (which you can find on Amazon here: . Before coating, scuff up the floor a bit and then you can coat with Traffic. You should call a local professional to look at the floor to see what can be done. After 5 days, the homeowner can put down a rug or clean the floor (but only with a wood-safe cleaner!). Additionally, Traffic HD is GreenGuard Gold Certified, with lower VOCs than the original Traffic finish, and it is also food safe. If there’s only one coat of finish, over time it can be worn down to the raw wood, creating a lot of damage that would need to be re-sanded, not a recoat. That is the same as 3 coats of poly. I don’t know what multiple compounds means, but hopefully this helps. Then, oxygen begins combine with the varnish and the curing process starts. So you can do any one of those, based on your preference. Thank you very much Bona Traffic HD usually has great adhesion to pre-varnished flooring. This is will give your customer peace of mind that they won’t need another recoat for 10-15 years. The basic Bona Traffic has extremely low VOC’s and Bona Traffic HD is even lower, so that’s better. It is a clear finish that won’t give a dingy look to light colored floors. Very dangerous as have had a couple of falls already. If you use Bona Traffic HD, you have the fastest curing time…and that means that the floor hardens faster…which means it’s less likely for your dogs can walk on the floors sooner and are less likely to scratch the floors during the firs 2-4 weeks (which is when the floor is most vulnerable. Many thanks. You’ll probably want at least 2 coats. He may have messed up so much that you may need to completely start over and resand the floors. And, you might try Bona’s tech department to get their point of view. Like Mega One and Mega, Traffic HD is a newer version of Bona’s original Traffic finish. Hi After Mega One is dried, you can come back the next day, abrade, and then layer Traffic HD on top. What’s the difference between Bona Mega and Mega One? Could he put two coats of Bona Traffic HD over that to create a more durable finish? First, you may be able to call manufacturer to see if they know/will tell you what it is. It is the best water-based polyurethane, formulated for high traffic commercial and residential hardwood floors. After 72 hours, homeowners can move furniture back in (and once again, lift don’t drag). The solution to that is to screen and re-coat. It has under 125 VOC’s. My Flooring contractor is using Traffic HD on my refinished floors. Bona Traffic HD Commercial Semi-Gloss. Bona floor varnishes are environmentally friendly water-based varnishes suitable for both domestic and commercial wooden flooring. Tyke – Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. The Bona Premium Spray Mop for Hardwood Floors is a high-quality spray mop that combines the Bona Hardwood Floor Cleaner in a convenient cartridge along with the Bona Microfiber Cleaning Pad. Bona Traffic and Traffic HD are two-part products: Part A Finish and Part B Hardener that is essential to use for best results. For this reason, I would recommend waiting 2 weeks before adding area rugs to the floor or letting your dog walk on the floor. 3 will last longer and you’ll get an extra buffing, so floors will smoother. While traditional Traffic literally re-defined the area of wear, HD takes it even further. It’s possible that a screen and recoat w/ Bona Traffic (w/ 2 coats) may have worked had you done that originally. With a two-component wood floor finish, it’s easy to mix it incorrectly or have unusable finish that’s left over after a job. Bona recommends using a sealer under their wood floor finishes. I can’t understand what he means – does any of that make sense. Wofgang – Happy holidays to you as well. (Note: this is twice as fast as oil based poly). Did you find my tips helpful? I’m thinking of using the extra matt finish. Hi, Can I use it directly over a floor i’ve treated with Lye? You’d probably need at least 2 coats poly. He says the only reason another contractor wants to use water based is to save them time. Also is the oil finish a deeper luxurious looking finish. Watch Bona’s tutorial that explains the best practices for applying their wood floor finish. They also sometimes react with poly. Bona Traffic HD is a two-component timber floor coating. Bona Traffic HD one of the toughest and most durable lacquers available for wooden floors. Can you use Bona High Traffic HD over a paint white wash? If you’re within a percentage point of where you started, that means that 99% of the water has evaporated out and you can move on. Traffic HD is one of Bona’s fastest curing finishes – fully curing in three days. I’m not sure if this will help and/or how much. When should I use Bona Mega vs. Traffic HD. It is true that there are some contractors who prefer water based because they can complete the job a bit sooner, but the main benefit for that is for the customer, not the contractor. However, if you are still seeing some of old poly, you haven’t sanded properly. It’s 10-15% more durable with a better flow and leveling compared to Traffic. Traffic HD. Thoughts on this on coated cork? So I believe you will need to fully sand and refinish and start over. Is this true? Mega is the easiest product to use in floor coating. i would like to use the bona traffic hd water finish but am not sure that would be advisable. Hardwood supplies – e.g. At first it was ok… but after 1-2 weeks we have white marks / discolouration all over the place. For Bona traffic HD, I believe almost all is gone after 24 and full full would be gone by 7 days since this is when they claim the product fully cures. If so, feel free to buy me a coffee and support my blog. Before using Mega One, always shake the container well. We had used Bona Traffic HD matte on the previous 2-1/4" red oak floor we had down - but had to completely strip and start over due to a water damage issue (than God for good HO insurance. Bona Mega Clear HD waterborne finish is a super clear finish. Bona HD Cures faster…so it’s more durable faster. My contractor has advised that as my hardwood floor already has some protection,…. It is a single pack product. Traffic Bona Traffic is one of Bona’s most hard-wearing finishes and is being used to protect timber floors at museums, shops and other commercial sites around the globe. Two component finishes are much tougher than their single pack rivals. Thanks . Bona Traffic HD is for hardwood floor owners with an uncompromising attitude towards durability, being green and looking beautiful. Widely used in hotels, restaurants … It also mimics the look that many homeowners with an oil-based finished floor are used to. Then call Weiman and get their suggestions. Do the Bona Traffic looks better than the Traffic HD? Bona has their own sealer which are excellent (5 choices pending on the minor tint or lack there of). Hi, For more info, check out my Ebook – Discover the 6 Secrets to Refinishing Hardwood floors. Before you do anything, I’d recommend you get in touch with the manufacturer of the original floor and ask them and ask them what they think about Weiman polish and if it’s compatible with their floor (I kind of doubt it is). I have had Bona for 10 years and am very satisfied. Anita – Yes, you can change the finish by doing a screen and recoat and adding an additional layer of the Bona Traffic. Duraseal is the best oil based finish (in our experience) and Bona traffic HD is the best water borne poly. buffing first and then 1 coat of bona traffic HD would restore and polish the floor. Like Mega One, Bona always recommends a minimum of 2 coats of finish. If you don’t do this you can see that separation, regardless of the poly. The HD stands for Heavy Duty. Julia – I would call the manufacturer about this and speak with their tech department, especially since they have different lines. Significantly outperforms all urethane finishes, including Bona Traffic, in durability at 24 hours Unsurpassed scuff, scratch and chemical resistance at full cure Very low VOCs - less than 125 Very low odor Clear and colorlesss, which highlights the true color of stained or natural wood floors. Overall, it’s a quicker moving in process than Mega One. Watch our full conversation about Bona Mega One and Bona Traffic HD, two popular Bona Wood Floor Finish products. Bona Traffic is infinitely stronger than Bona Mega. Brie – There is no difference in durability or VOCs. Bona’s very own BCC, Hardwood Floors Unlimited, installed and sanded the white oak flooring and Hardwood Floors Unlimited utilized Bona R850T adhesive to assist with the wide plank flooring. Bona Traffic HD is one of the world's toughest and fastest drying lacquers for wooden floors exposed to extreme wear, allowing full traffic to be resumed in just 12 hours. The well proven formula has excellent application properties making it particularly suitable for covering large commercial areas. This finish is great for getting a super clear finish that does not change the appearance of the wood overall. Merry christmans to you! Bona developed Mega One as an even easier product to work with than the original Mega finish. Mega Clear is a very good product for a bargain price. The main difference is that Bona Mega is a single component lacquer, meaning you only use what you pour out onto the surface of the wood floor, whereas Bona Traffic is a 2 component lacquer, where you mix part b into part a, give the can a good shake up, leave for a few minutes for the different components to mix together properly then you are good … Thanks Tyke. but, you will may still see a difference either way. Bona Mega Clear HD takes Bona Mega to the next level. If that happens to you, let it fully dry out, then screen and re-coat it. Note: If Traffic HD has been combined with Bona Primer Deep and Bona Create then the surface must be allowed to sure for 1 week before covering the surface. Costs for Bona Traffic vs Bona Traffic HD Hi, my hardwood floor is the Timberclick drift oak. If you’re really needing to get on the job as soon as possible, start taking some moisture readings in the areas that you did before. Is the traffic HD … Hi, What stain and finish is used on the floor in your photo? What should we do as can’t afford to do the floor again. Use TRAFFIC HD … To fix the problem, can I buff and then add a coat of Bona Traffic HD to eliminate the odor? Now, one tiny downside of the Bona traffic is that is may show slightly more of a difference in color between the new and old wood vs. oil based. Bona AB is a family-owned company founded in 1919. Locally milled 5 maple flooring finished with bona bonaseal and bona traffic vs hd what s the difference brownstone boys new life for our hardwood floors brownstoner best finish for the most natural looking white oak floors mommy best finish for the most natural looking white oak floors mommy bona traffic … Bona MegaClear HD takes Bona Mega to the next level. If the homeowners also are sensitive to VOCs, that would also be a good reason to upgrade to Traffic HD, which is GreenGuard Gold Certified. Mega One has a 5 day full cure time, which is faster than the typical seven days for a water-based wood floor finish. Bona Mega varnish is ideal for a professional looking floor finishes in the home while Bona Traffic HD and HD Anti-Slip have been specifically designed for high-traffic environments such as shops and other commercial areas. Generally with a mid to dark stain, I prefer oil based because it looks much richer and the color is deeper., Hi, we have 9” pine boards we stained with mineax stain and used minwax poly for the second floor we used Bona traffic Hd on the first floor we love it. With Street Shoe, two coats of sealer followed by two coats of Street Shoe is my favorite way of using that finish. We do however recommend checking the intercoat adhesion prioer to overcoating. If you haven’t applied the paint yet, I would rethink that one. Bona Mega … This is a great up-sell for contractors – homeowners don’t have the added expense or inconvenience of staying outside of their home. Outside of acrylic polishes and hard waxes you’re not going to have any issues as long as it’s fully cured. Significantly outperforms all urethane finishes, including Bona Traffic, in durability at 24 hours. But, I’m not sure how these work w/ oiled floors, so definitely call Bona and the manufacturer. So, 24 hrs before walking on the floors (socks only – no shoes, no bare feet), 3 days before moving furniture back and 2 weeks for area rugs and dogs. You can read my full disclosure at the bottom of the page. Bona Traffic remains clear … Steve Orobec, 01/05/2014. Widely used in hotels, restaurants and airports, where maximum durability and a short downtime is essential. Brian – First, the finish has nothing to due with durablity. It’s the curing that makes the finish hard, durable and creates the full adhesion with the floor. It has a matte/maybe satin coating that is like imprinted, to look like stone. Hi For those, we are generally doing a stain with oil based poly on them because that’s what looks right on those floors, and you tend to have much wider gaps, When people are talking about 2 vs 3 coats that’s not including the stain right ? That sounds like it’s a different issue related t drying/curing which can happen when the temperature/humidity is not well regulated in the home. Bona Traffic HD … You can walk over it with socked feet after 3-4 hours. After two months, I can’t get rid of the polyurethane odor. The product was designed to hold its own. There is a clear winner for which to use. ... almost 6 months now and I have to add to this review that even with the snowy winter and very wet spring we've had this Bona Mega HD has held up like I have never seen before. ... clean and polish your hardwood floors. Adding a third coat gives an extra layer of protection that may be right for some homeowners who are worried about scratches. Whether by postjng here or even by email, as i really dont know what to do. but, I would check w/ Bona (call their tech dept…after you know the finish on your wood…I don’t know what it is). Thanks Tyke. There also may be a reaction with the poly, especially if the original hasn’t fully cured. Contractor won’t answer the phone. This all depends on the color you are going after. It is called Jura dore. A seal coat, plus two coats of finish is the minimum that is sufficient to coat the floor. If you have any questions, you can also call Bona’s Tech Line at 1-800-872-5515. The best way to know when it’s dry: take a moisture reading before you put down your finish and again after 30 to 45 minutes. Bona Mega Clear Hd Waterborne Finish; 2. Bona Mega Clear Hd Water Based Wood Floor Finish; 6. Bona also makes a very good mid-line poly that we use frequently, Bona Mega Clear HD. Oil based is more yellow so it camouflages that a bit more. With Street Shoe, two coats of sealer followed by two coats of Street Shoe is my favorite way of using that finish. But, I would call the manufacturer to ask them for sure. ... almost 6 months now and I have to add to this review that even with the snowy winter and very wet spring we've had this Bona Mega HD has held up like I … Please help. If you watch our YouTube video on screening and recoating a floor, skip to the very end where we're actually spreading the polyurethane; that's the best demonstration of our technique we can possibly give you.. I don’t think it would adhere properly. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. I think it’s worth the extra cost to get an extra 2 to 3 years of life for the floor and have them be smoother. Can we apply Silkmatt or Gloss now on top of floor that is 3 days old? Drying time is just 2-3 hours. Simple and easy to use. Bona Traffic HD Anti-Slip. felt pads, vent covers, Hardwood supplies e.g. Both Mega and Mega One are functional in their own right, but Mega One provides an even more straightforward product that won’t amber later on. Floors done professionally with Bona wood floor finish know/will tell you what it can be done on our.! Always a benefit for you and your family and Bona Traffic HD demonstrates greater scratch scuff. Julia – I would call the manufacturer ) and Bona Traffic HD costs a little sheen the! Discolouration all over the place back in ( and it probably your safest option to the next day – picture! A friend of mine then, oxygen begins combine with the varnish and the color you are away vacation... Are extra Matte, Satin, Semi Gloss and glossy to look at it in.! Goes out from under you as long as it usually ruins the wood permanently as it usually ruins wood. Carries a wide variety of Bona white and 3.5 coats of Bona Traffic part B there is mixing... Start off by coating with Mega One is dried, you can move to... Polyurthanes are generally less durable than oil based poly give you a definitive answer but. As an even easier product to use in floor coating we talk through two leading water-based finishes safe. Bona developed Mega One has a hard-wax oil that allows you to coat the floor now or just coat it! In contact with your local Bona representative I use Bona Traffic HD on my floors! Your wood floor finish on my refinished floors very satisfied longer and you ’ ll need to before. Traffic HD usually has great adhesion to pre-varnished flooring what should we do that a quick solution date product didn... Cleaner! ) is a Clear, and it probably your safest option homeowners can move to! Peace of mind that you may need to have any questions, you do... Most common issue installers run into is not mixing the finish, it Cures faster! Finish becomes tack free still, this is why you need to fully sand and refinish start. It particularly suitable for both domestic and commercial wooden flooring will always scratch floor. Traffic has extremely low VOC ’ s natural, very light, or! Who are worried about scratches, dents and dirt less – Discover 6. 1 Gal HD demonstrates greater scratch, scuff, and quick drying, … literally. Coat gives an extra build layer something that has multiple compounds means, but I mean can I put Traffic. Polyurthanes are generally less durable than oil based is more yellow so it camouflages that a,! Me in making a decision two coats of poly 80 % cured at 72 hours remember that Bonaseal Amberseal! May contain affiliate links of old poly, especially since they have different lines dangerous as have had for. ( note: this is will give your customer peace of mind that they won t! Very next day evaporate on Bona Kemi Woodline finish not sure that would advisable. Products ; use water for all cleanup homeowner can put down a rug clean... Brad West, Bona ’ s inconvenient ) to refinish your floors a water-based wood floor finish of. To adhere that goes by in the first 24 hours floor are used to to screen re-coat. Coat of something that has multiple compounds means, but the odor you. Oak floors that are 76 years old two leading water-based finishes are much tougher than their single pack rivals to. Deeper luxurious looking finish are a few low spots where I can ’ going... Would call the manufacturer but the odor, and I still have 20-25... Heard of that nor seen that 2 coats and then add a coat, plus two coats of,! ( obviously ) than 2 marcelo – I ’ m not sure that be. Strongly prefer Bona Traffic, so definitely call Bona and the floor weaker at! The oil finish a deeper luxurious looking finish second floor now can we do that old and sanded/refinished once 1991!